On the World Championship cycle and privileges.
A lot has been said and meant about the format and frequent changes of the World Championship cycle as well as the privileges of former champions.
Opinions on the format are mostly subjective, while the privileges and frequent changes lend themselves to objective analytical evaluation.
V. Kramnik will be playing in Mexico. More surprisingly he will get a re-match against the winner irrespective of the outcome.There are arguments for this solution - he did beat Kasparov in 2000, defended his title against Leko in 2004 and beat Topalov in 2006, the reintroduction of FIDE WC matches combined with the fact that Kramnik has not lost a WC match yet counts in his favour. But there are also strong arguments against. He did not allow Kasparov a re-match, he was not a FIDE World Champion before 2006, to public knowledge a re-match was not part of the Elista 2006 match agreement, and it is obviously unfair to the winner and runner up in Mexico if Kramnik ends 3rd or worse.
In conclusion it is obvious that he has got a (too) good deal. Why? Maybe simply because it is easier to say yes and to push potential problems in front of you rather than say no. The right of Kramnik was a difficult issue and the proponent a strong name and representative of Russia, while the potential losers are currently nameless and less likely to speak up.
The story about Topalov's sudden right to a challenger match against the World Cup winner follows the same lines. Although it seems odd to arrange Mexico without Topalov, he fell for his own Elista rules.
The short story is; he obviously also got a (too) good deal.
FIDE yielded to a strong Bulgarian delegation at the cost of the nameless World Cup winner and runner-up.
In effect the World Cup final, as a WC match qualifier, has been relegated to a semi-final, the semi-final to a quarter-final etc.
Some of the criticism of FIDE relates the frequent changes to the purported lack of democracy and the central fiefdom of FIDE as if these are strengths. To me it is more a sign of weakness and their eager want of support. Take politics in general. Wherever we see frequent chance of mind and diverse support for initiatives in spreading directions it is usually a frenetic and populist search for public (and voters) support.
From this angle Global Chess can contribute significantly in the future. If they manage to find broad corporate sponsorship for the World Championship cycle and the planned Grand Prix series, their main concern will (and have to) be the sponsors. It will not be the whims of FIDE leadership and it will not be to win short term support from individual federations or chess professionals.
Global Chess face a difficult task. It would probably be much easier to sell chess in this future stable environment. But they need to sell it now to get there, (a catch-22). But if Bessel Kok and Jeoffrey Borg are as good as I think they are, they will get there!
On a positive note, Magnus qualified on rating and looks forward to the World Cup in Khanty-Mansyisk.
He is happy about the return to the KO format, and the memories from 2005 are of course good.
Money prices are also slightly higher than in 2005 so that the event should attract most of the world elite.
Henrik Carlsen
Lommedalen, August 21th
Opinions on the format are mostly subjective, while the privileges and frequent changes lend themselves to objective analytical evaluation.
V. Kramnik will be playing in Mexico. More surprisingly he will get a re-match against the winner irrespective of the outcome.There are arguments for this solution - he did beat Kasparov in 2000, defended his title against Leko in 2004 and beat Topalov in 2006, the reintroduction of FIDE WC matches combined with the fact that Kramnik has not lost a WC match yet counts in his favour. But there are also strong arguments against. He did not allow Kasparov a re-match, he was not a FIDE World Champion before 2006, to public knowledge a re-match was not part of the Elista 2006 match agreement, and it is obviously unfair to the winner and runner up in Mexico if Kramnik ends 3rd or worse.
In conclusion it is obvious that he has got a (too) good deal. Why? Maybe simply because it is easier to say yes and to push potential problems in front of you rather than say no. The right of Kramnik was a difficult issue and the proponent a strong name and representative of Russia, while the potential losers are currently nameless and less likely to speak up.
The story about Topalov's sudden right to a challenger match against the World Cup winner follows the same lines. Although it seems odd to arrange Mexico without Topalov, he fell for his own Elista rules.
The short story is; he obviously also got a (too) good deal.
FIDE yielded to a strong Bulgarian delegation at the cost of the nameless World Cup winner and runner-up.
In effect the World Cup final, as a WC match qualifier, has been relegated to a semi-final, the semi-final to a quarter-final etc.
Some of the criticism of FIDE relates the frequent changes to the purported lack of democracy and the central fiefdom of FIDE as if these are strengths. To me it is more a sign of weakness and their eager want of support. Take politics in general. Wherever we see frequent chance of mind and diverse support for initiatives in spreading directions it is usually a frenetic and populist search for public (and voters) support.
From this angle Global Chess can contribute significantly in the future. If they manage to find broad corporate sponsorship for the World Championship cycle and the planned Grand Prix series, their main concern will (and have to) be the sponsors. It will not be the whims of FIDE leadership and it will not be to win short term support from individual federations or chess professionals.
Global Chess face a difficult task. It would probably be much easier to sell chess in this future stable environment. But they need to sell it now to get there, (a catch-22). But if Bessel Kok and Jeoffrey Borg are as good as I think they are, they will get there!
On a positive note, Magnus qualified on rating and looks forward to the World Cup in Khanty-Mansyisk.
He is happy about the return to the KO format, and the memories from 2005 are of course good.
Money prices are also slightly higher than in 2005 so that the event should attract most of the world elite.
Henrik Carlsen
Lommedalen, August 21th
Comments:
Posted by: Theo
Well said, Henrik! The system is now again turning into a complete mess! How can FIDE change the rules over and over again, afterwards....giving incredible priveleges!?!?! :O
IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
I'm almost ashamed to be a chessplayer...:/
This is not a healthy organisation! (fide)
There is a big mess ahead still, believe me...
War is not over....The chessworld is not unified yet.
...oh well....we'll see what happens...
Anyways, Magnus like the KO format!?!? :o
Hmmm... :(
IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
I'm almost ashamed to be a chessplayer...:/
This is not a healthy organisation! (fide)
There is a big mess ahead still, believe me...
War is not over....The chessworld is not unified yet.
...oh well....we'll see what happens...
Anyways, Magnus like the KO format!?!? :o
Hmmm... :(
Posted by: Charley
Henrik, I certainly do not want to take issue with your comments as a whole.
But the fact that Kramnik never was a FIDE World Champion should, if anything, count in his favour (if we leave Las Vegas aside, where he did actually play and fail.)
"Did not allow Kasparov a rematch"... It is quite possible that he did not strive for one, but the way you put it suggests that he refused a realistic proposal for a match on capricious grounds.
That he did not.
I hasten to add that I am fan of Magnus and can only agree with Vishy, who has said that it is hard to imagine he will not be World Champion someday.
But the fact that Kramnik never was a FIDE World Champion should, if anything, count in his favour (if we leave Las Vegas aside, where he did actually play and fail.)
"Did not allow Kasparov a rematch"... It is quite possible that he did not strive for one, but the way you put it suggests that he refused a realistic proposal for a match on capricious grounds.
That he did not.
I hasten to add that I am fan of Magnus and can only agree with Vishy, who has said that it is hard to imagine he will not be World Champion someday.
Posted by: Ole Morten Persen
I would like to add to what Charley already menioned concerning Kramnik not giving Kasparov a rematch. It was actually Kasparov, during negotiations before the London match, that INSISTED that in the unlikely event of him losing the title to Kramnik he should not be granted an automatic rematch as he was against the idea in general. SO when he started shouting for a rematch when the unthinkable (to him) happened, he only had himself to blame. And remember also the fact that the motions that ended in the Prague agreement started right after, and that ever since Kramnik has upheld his part of the agreement, but FIDE has failed at every opportunity.
There is however no doubt that the proposed system is peculiar to say the least. To me it seems that for this cycle it would have been a lot easier, and reasonable, to just let Topalov play Mexico, and let the winner in Mexico play Kramnik. That's of course depending on the outcome of the hearings in the Fide Ethics Comittee regarding Topalovs and his teams actions during and after Elista.
There is however no doubt that the proposed system is peculiar to say the least. To me it seems that for this cycle it would have been a lot easier, and reasonable, to just let Topalov play Mexico, and let the winner in Mexico play Kramnik. That's of course depending on the outcome of the hearings in the Fide Ethics Comittee regarding Topalovs and his teams actions during and after Elista.
Posted by: Ron
Dear Henrik,
I like your blog but I advise you not to mix yourself (and so Magnus) in the machinations of FIDE. Just stimulate Magnus to become better and better and maybe, eventually, become World Champion. Then you can tell FIDE how you like things to work!
I like your blog but I advise you not to mix yourself (and so Magnus) in the machinations of FIDE. Just stimulate Magnus to become better and better and maybe, eventually, become World Champion. Then you can tell FIDE how you like things to work!
Posted by: Henrik C.
Charley,
good point.
Although considering that Kramnik did not qualify in a match or a tournament for the match against Kasparov and then kept his title for 4 years without any new match does weaken his position as a World Champion considerably.
Dear Ron,
thank you for your advice, but I do disagree with you.
In pursuit of a better (chess) world, I believe that people in general should speak up on important topics as long as it is kept civil :-)
My whole point is that in general World Champions should NOT how things should work. We need a stable predictable regime to attract sponsors and keep chess professionals attracted to chess.
good point.
Although considering that Kramnik did not qualify in a match or a tournament for the match against Kasparov and then kept his title for 4 years without any new match does weaken his position as a World Champion considerably.
Dear Ron,
thank you for your advice, but I do disagree with you.
In pursuit of a better (chess) world, I believe that people in general should speak up on important topics as long as it is kept civil :-)
My whole point is that in general World Champions should NOT how things should work. We need a stable predictable regime to attract sponsors and keep chess professionals attracted to chess.
Posted by: Rolfo
Thanks Henrik for good analysis. And we all looks forward to WC in Kh-Mansyisk!!
(As a politician I admit you have a point in your example regarding Fide reasoning. Nevertheless, I understand
Ron's piece of advice )
Posted by: Odd-Steinar Arntzen
Takker for fin spalte, som jeg leser jevnlig med stor interesse.
Som engelsklære reagerer jeg av og til på det du skriver. Det er klart at en nordmann som skriver på engelsk må begå feil av og til, uansett hvor god man er. Jeg vet ikke hvor mange lesere du har med engelsk morsmål, men disse vil f.eks kunne misforstå dersom du bruker "to mean/meant" i betydningen "å mene/mente" ." To hold" eller en omskriving med "believe/think " er bedre. Katergorien "diverse" er heller ikke forståelig for en som ikke kan norsk.
Håper rettinga er ok. Den er ment som en forbedring.
Med vennlig hilsen
O.S.Arntzen, Brønnøysund
Som engelsklære reagerer jeg av og til på det du skriver. Det er klart at en nordmann som skriver på engelsk må begå feil av og til, uansett hvor god man er. Jeg vet ikke hvor mange lesere du har med engelsk morsmål, men disse vil f.eks kunne misforstå dersom du bruker "to mean/meant" i betydningen "å mene/mente" ." To hold" eller en omskriving med "believe/think " er bedre. Katergorien "diverse" er heller ikke forståelig for en som ikke kan norsk.
Håper rettinga er ok. Den er ment som en forbedring.
Med vennlig hilsen
O.S.Arntzen, Brønnøysund
Posted by: Kjell Kristoffersen
Denne bloggen er fantastisk bra som den er. Forsvinn Arntzen, din pedantiske gærning!
Posted by: Kjell Kristoffersen
Dessuten, min gode herr Arntzen, så må jeg jo si som norsklærer at det er helt horribelt at du kaller deg "engelsklære". Fy skamme seg!
Posted by: Henrik C.
Odd-Steinar,
takk for rådene. Skal forsøke å rette navnet på "Diverse".
Jeg har inntrykk at det til tider er ganske mange lesere med engelsk morsmål. Selv om jeg naturlig nok skriver endel feil (dette påpeker også Magnus), tror jeg innleggene som regel er forståelige.
Fin engelsktrening er det også! Jeg er forøvrig fornøyd med my positiv tilbakemelding.
Kjell,
takk for skryt om bloggen!
takk for rådene. Skal forsøke å rette navnet på "Diverse".
Jeg har inntrykk at det til tider er ganske mange lesere med engelsk morsmål. Selv om jeg naturlig nok skriver endel feil (dette påpeker også Magnus), tror jeg innleggene som regel er forståelige.
Fin engelsktrening er det også! Jeg er forøvrig fornøyd med my positiv tilbakemelding.
Kjell,
takk for skryt om bloggen!
Posted by: Martin
Henrik,
Det hadde vært så kult om du kunne fått Magnus til å skrive noen ord i bloggen...
Om hva han tenker om prestasjonene sine i det siste, om det er noen spesielle partier han husker godt , enten det er positivt eller negativ eller noe annet... hva som helst!
Mvh Martin
Det hadde vært så kult om du kunne fått Magnus til å skrive noen ord i bloggen...
Om hva han tenker om prestasjonene sine i det siste, om det er noen spesielle partier han husker godt , enten det er positivt eller negativ eller noe annet... hva som helst!
Mvh Martin
Posted by: Henrik C.
Martin,
jeg skal spørre ham.
Om jeg ikke spesifikt bruker jeg-form, er det meste jeg skriver om hans partier eller prestasjoner fra ham.
jeg skal spørre ham.
Om jeg ikke spesifikt bruker jeg-form, er det meste jeg skriver om hans partier eller prestasjoner fra ham.
Posted by: Maia
Hi Mr. Carlsen, i have a little question, how many time does Magnus get inform about his next tournaments... for example, how many time did the people who organized the morelia-linares tournament informed you, and Magnus about his participation? i mean before... i don't know if you can understand me, sorry but i have that doubt, but i'll be very grlad if you can answer me that, THANKS!! :-)!! regrets to every body!!!
Posted by: Henrik C.
Maia,
I'm nor sure I understand your question, but I assume it relates to how long in advance Magnus is invited to tournaments.
It varies a lot, but for Morelia-Linares 2007 he was invited late in the autumn 2006.
The timing of the invitations depends both on the timing of the planning of the different tournaments and on how early or late in the process Magnus is invited. He may be a clear invitee or a supplement in case someone declines the invitation or withdraws etc.
I'm nor sure I understand your question, but I assume it relates to how long in advance Magnus is invited to tournaments.
It varies a lot, but for Morelia-Linares 2007 he was invited late in the autumn 2006.
The timing of the invitations depends both on the timing of the planning of the different tournaments and on how early or late in the process Magnus is invited. He may be a clear invitee or a supplement in case someone declines the invitation or withdraws etc.
Posted by: Rolfo
Henrik,
Is time and schedule for Tal Memorial this year settled?
I understand Magnus is invited and will participate. Do you know anything about other players?
Rolfo
Is time and schedule for Tal Memorial this year settled?
I understand Magnus is invited and will participate. Do you know anything about other players?
Rolfo
Posted by: Liv
"Although considering that Kramnik did not qualify in a match or a tournament for the match against Kasparov and then kept his title for 4 years without any new match does weaken his position as a World Champion considerably."
How? And what does that have to do with the original statement?
How? And what does that have to do with the original statement?
Posted by: ?
plop!!
Thanks Mr. Carlsen... hehe, sorry, i have a little problems lately with english but don't worry, i'll restart the classes hehe... thanks!! a lot for the answer!!! i have that horrible doubt... jeje thanks!!! Regrets to Magnus!!
Thanks Mr. Carlsen... hehe, sorry, i have a little problems lately with english but don't worry, i'll restart the classes hehe... thanks!! a lot for the answer!!! i have that horrible doubt... jeje thanks!!! Regrets to Magnus!!
Posted by: Gegga
Maia,
You always end your comments with "regrets".
As far as I understand, "regrets" means something like "I'm sorry".
Arrest me if I'm wrong, anyone.
You always end your comments with "regrets".
As far as I understand, "regrets" means something like "I'm sorry".
Arrest me if I'm wrong, anyone.
Posted by: Rolfo
Gegga, I believe Maia is a big joker..
Posted by: Espen
off topic..
I wonder when FIDE are going to update the photo of Magnus. He doesn't
look like a child anymore... :-)
I wonder when FIDE are going to update the photo of Magnus. He doesn't
look like a child anymore... :-)
Posted by: Rune
It is perhaps a picture of the child within. About the regrets that come in good times or bad, Maia probably means "regards" or even "greetings". If she is a big joker, I reckon she should tell us a good joke from time to time :)
Posted by: Maia
Yeah!! sorry, sorry!! i'll stop writting, i know my mistakes are hudge but sorry ok?, but i don't think i ofend enyone right?, so.. sorry if you want that!!
REGARDS!! (it's that ok?) jejeje yes, and gegga it's right jeje, don't worry gegga specialy regards to you jejeje ;-)
REGARDS!! (it's that ok?) jejeje yes, and gegga it's right jeje, don't worry gegga specialy regards to you jejeje ;-)
Posted by: Maia
yuju!! i've learn a new word jejejeje
Posted by: Answering
Kramnik actually LOST the qualification against Shirov, but still he was the one who played against Kasparov...
Kraminik later won the final, but in what other sport can someone who loses the semifinal go on and win the final?
Kraminik later won the final, but in what other sport can someone who loses the semifinal go on and win the final?
Posted by: questioning
so, "answering", what happened to Shirov then? Why didn't he play Kasparov?
Posted by: Answering
They just cancelled the match, waited a little, and chose Kramnik to play Kasparov instead.
Posted by: Ole M. Persen
That someone who loses a qualifier is let into the final and then wins is NOT unique to chess. In 1990 Yugoslavia qualified for the European football championship, but because of the ban by UN, UEFA decided they wouldn't be allowed to play and instead gave their place in the tournament to Denmark. As is now well known, Denmark beat Germany 2-0 in the final and became European champions. So stop whining about Kramnik being given the chance to play Kasparov as a once in a lifetime incident. And to underline, it has happened in chess too. In the US chess championship which was to be the zonal tournament to decide who advanced to the interzonal in 1970, Bobby Fischer refused to play. So he was according to the rules not qualified for the interzonal, but FIDE accepted that he was given the place of one of the other american players, and thus was allowed to play. The rest is history as they say.
Posted by: Answering
Wow, Ole M. Persen, you're clearly the most dim-witted person ever to write here! Congratulations, your ridiculous examples definitley prove that intelligence and knowledge are two very different things.
Posted by: Airhead
Answering, that was just rude and uncalled for.
Posted by: Henrik C.
Now, now, keep it civil please.
Liv, I'm not sure what you are pointing at, but I'll comment briefly on why my comments about the relatively weak status of Kramnik as a match World Champion seems relevant to my original blog.
If there had been a continous undisputed sequence of World Championship matches with Mexico a stand-alone exception (and Kramnik had won the last 3 WC matches), it would be more reasonable that he would get a re-match against the winner of Mexico when returning to the WC match cycle. The facts that Kramnik did not qualify for a match, the first 2 matches was outside FIDE, Kramnik waited 4 years before playing another match after beating Kasparov, to common knowledge Kramnik accepted playing for a place in the Mexico WC and nothing more, obviously weakens his position as a long time reigning WC match champion.
Anyhow, Magnus certainly looks forward to follow the WC from Mexico!
Liv, I'm not sure what you are pointing at, but I'll comment briefly on why my comments about the relatively weak status of Kramnik as a match World Champion seems relevant to my original blog.
If there had been a continous undisputed sequence of World Championship matches with Mexico a stand-alone exception (and Kramnik had won the last 3 WC matches), it would be more reasonable that he would get a re-match against the winner of Mexico when returning to the WC match cycle. The facts that Kramnik did not qualify for a match, the first 2 matches was outside FIDE, Kramnik waited 4 years before playing another match after beating Kasparov, to common knowledge Kramnik accepted playing for a place in the Mexico WC and nothing more, obviously weakens his position as a long time reigning WC match champion.
Anyhow, Magnus certainly looks forward to follow the WC from Mexico!
Posted by: Ole M. Persen
I'm not going to stoop to your level, Answering, and start throwing insults at other contributors here. But you asked a simple question, and I quote: "Kraminik later won the final, but in what other sport can someone who loses the semifinal go on and win the final?" I didn't even bother to correct your mistake about "Kraminik" (you can start by learning to spell his name correctly) winning the match, as you're obviously intelligent enough to see your mistake yourself. And the example I gave was a legitimate example from a big sporting event. I could have mentioned examples from other sports, like boxing, where people who weren't considered legitimate contenders for the title still has gotten their chance AND won, and no one questions their legitimacy as champions because they did what champions do: They beat the former champion. And only someone who is totally biased and refuses to see the facts denies that. I didn't say that those facts make Kramniks title more or less legitimate, I only pointed out that the situation isn't unique. And the fact that you're unable to respond with objective arguments and instead starts attacking me as a person, says a whole lot more about you than it does about me.
Posted by: R M
Hi Henrik, I wondered whether Magnus is 'rooting' for anyone in particular to win Mexico - or is he diplomatically wishing them all good luck!
And yet another vote of thanks for your great blog!
And yet another vote of thanks for your great blog!
Posted by: medium
Magnus should be rooting for Aronian, since he played an even match with him.
Posted by: Espen Stormorken
Hey. Much have been said about FIDE, WCC and the mess which is created by many different kinds of people. One i would say perfect way to solve this is that Kramnik solves it for us wins mexico and then beats topalov in the following match, showing rest of the world that he is the king after kasparov, Anand is also good but kramnik is best and i hope he solves our problem now
, so things can be "reunited" again without any doubt! 4-5 years from now on, we can expect MC to be a challenger to kramnik if he continues to work hard and take the sacrifices needed to get an edge in the top! MC didnt beat kasparov but Kramnik will eventually go down.. Good luck MC!!!!
, so things can be "reunited" again without any doubt! 4-5 years from now on, we can expect MC to be a challenger to kramnik if he continues to work hard and take the sacrifices needed to get an edge in the top! MC didnt beat kasparov but Kramnik will eventually go down.. Good luck MC!!!!
Posted by: Sam
Apologies for being completely off topic, but I thought it necessary to offer my congratulations to Rosenborg for drawing with Chelsea FC! I did not expect that! For the Norwegians on this site, are Rosenborg a popular club in Norway?
P.S Are you all enjoying the chess world championship?
P.S Are you all enjoying the chess world championship?
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